Welcome to the Pilot Spec Ops discussion blog. The purpose of this blog is to foster discussion between future Air Force officers interested in flying spec ops aircraft and current pilots in flying such planes. The views expressed in this blog are solely the opinions of the individual authors and not of the United States Air Force nor the Department of Defense.
Thursday, February 1, 2007
Questions
Cadets, post questions here as comments to this post that you'd like to see turned into new threads for discussion.
Coming straight out of pilot training the most common spec ops platforms available to Lts are helos and C-130s. I can't talk too much on helos, but the plan for the MH-53 is to retire it and replace it with the CV-22. The first CV-22s have just gotten to Hurlburt, but the MH-53 is still around. However, they are not sending new people to fly the MH-53.
If you want to fly C-130s you will most likely go to Corpus Christi for the second half of your flight training. Almost all C-130 pilots go through Corpus Christi and when they are done their pilot training class will get a list of all available C-130 jobs. There will be AMC slicks, EC-130s, HC-130s, AC-130s and MC-130s. If you want to fly in Spec ops you will pick either MC-130s or AC-130s. You will go to Little Rock for C-130 training before going to the specific spec ops training base for the mission you have picked.
The spec ops community differs from the AMC community by having a much more push ahead attitude with the mission and willing to accept more risk. The spec ops attitude is to try and hack the mission if it can be done and find ways to get the mission done since the guys on the ground are relying on you for support. Sometimes that support is the difference between life and death. You also work closely with the other branches of spec ops forces and joint ops are much more important. You really don't have that jointness in the AMC world. Also, since you are working with the ground spec ops guys you tend to go places with them, so you will probably being living in tents at a remote location versus the other heavy guys staying in hotels. So, if you don't like tough living conditions, then spec ops is probably not for you.
My ideal choices are down to (1) flying Spec Ops (AC-130 or CV-22) or.. (2) going weather and hopefully going down the SOWT pipeline.
They both have pros and cons to them and I can't really decide between the two. Did anybody on here have a similar problem when they were choosing AFSC's? My instinct is to put pilot down first because it's much easier to switch out of than to switch into. Any help?
Schmee, I have a couple of friends flying hueys and you are correct that they are at the missle bases. However, there are a couple in other locations. They have a couple at Eglin AFB to do test missions, and we actually have one in my current squadron (6 SOS) at Hurlburt Field. The helo pilots in the 6 SOS fly on both the huey and the 2 MI-17s(Russian helo).
I don't think that the hueys really deploy that much since I have never seen them in the desert, but that does not mean they don't.
The guys in my current sqdn that fly helos have actually flown a variety of them over their careers so I know it is possible to potentially change helos in the AF. However, from what I have seen, I think it is probably easier to go from HH-60s to hueys than the other way around.
Chad, I had a similar problem when it came to picking my AFSC. While at the academy I studied Russian and close to graduation there were a couple of potential jobs at the Ukrainian embassy. I could not decide if I still wanted to fly or try and get a job as a foreign area advisor. In the end I took my pilot slot since that was the reason I went to the Academy, and see if I could tie flying and my Russian skills together down the road. It has actually worked out for me, since I was selected to go translate in Uzbekistan right after Sept 11th as we set up the deployed base at K-2. I was able to use my language and pilot skills to help the commander.
Now, I am in a squadron that has Russian planes and you need language experience to get hired. I fly C-130s and the AN-26 (Russian Plane) so I have been lucky enough to be able to use my Russian and flying skills in my current job.
Steelprism, 1)The CV-22 is still a very new acft to the AF, and they are still setting up the training program. Since there are only a few CV-22s around, the people flying them are the initial cadre coming from mostly C-130 backgrounds and they are not sending people from pilot training to the CV-22. I think it will be at least a couple of years before you can pick one in pilot training. When I talked to the guys who flew the first one into Hurlburt they said that it is easier for C-130/fixed wing pilots to fly the CV-22 than for Helo guys to learn to fly the CV-22. They say it flys like a plane except takeoffs and landings. I have flown it in the Sim at Hurlburt and it was very easy to fly and the instruments are top of the line.
I know that many people still have concerns about the safety of the CV-22 and you have to make up your own mind. I asked the pilots on the CV-22 if they had concerns and they both said that they did not and they thought it was safe to fly. They did say that with any new acft you are going to come across problems that were not discovered earlier as the plane gets flown more in training. They both said they really enjoyed flying the CV-22.
2) Yes, all 3 acft are very different and have different missions. The CV-22 and the C-130 have a more similar mission, but they are still very different. The thing they have in common is spec ops, which means you will work with the other airframes to get an operation done. They are all small pieces of the spec ops puzzle that get put together to accomplish the mission. If you want to be close to the ground fight, then you want the helo, but if you want to still enjoy some safety of flying higher and into safer locations than the C-130 is the right choice.
3)I think the Spec ops mission is probably a little harder on family life since you can leave at a moments notice to fly a secret mission. However, with the current OEF/OIF operations, all C-130s, C-17s, and other transport squadrons are gone on deployments just as long. I have C-130 AMC friends who have at times been deployed more than I have been. So, yes Spec ops can be hard on the family, but right now all AF families are being seperated due to OEF/OIF. The good news is there are many organizations on base to help the family that is left behind.
Chad - we also have a combat weather guy (another 98 grad) answering questions on the Weather page...since you're deciding between both of them...hope this helps.
I'm a spec ops helo pilot that just PCSd to USAFA and would love to be a contributor on this blog. How do I become a regular contributor and how do I start a new thread?
13 comments:
Does the mission vary greatly between the MH-53 and HH-60? How are the deployments/duration of deploying with a Spec Ops unit?
How do you get into spec ops flying?
How does the attitude differ from the regular heavy community?
Coming straight out of pilot training the most common spec ops platforms available to Lts are helos and C-130s. I can't talk too much on helos, but the plan for the MH-53 is to retire it and replace it with the CV-22. The first CV-22s have just gotten to Hurlburt, but the MH-53 is still around. However, they are not sending new people to fly the MH-53.
If you want to fly C-130s you will most likely go to Corpus Christi for the second half of your flight training. Almost all C-130 pilots go through Corpus Christi and when they are done their pilot training class will get a list of all available C-130 jobs. There will be AMC slicks, EC-130s, HC-130s, AC-130s and MC-130s. If you want to fly in Spec ops you will pick either MC-130s or AC-130s. You will go to Little Rock for C-130 training before going to the specific spec ops training base for the mission you have picked.
The spec ops community differs from the AMC community by having a much more push ahead attitude with the mission and willing to accept more risk. The spec ops attitude is to try and hack the mission if it can be done and find ways to get the mission done since the guys on the ground are relying on you for support. Sometimes that support is the difference between life and death. You also work closely with the other branches of spec ops forces and joint ops are much more important. You really don't have that jointness in the AMC world. Also, since you are working with the ground spec ops guys you tend to go places with them, so you will probably being living in tents at a remote location versus the other heavy guys staying in hotels. So, if you don't like tough living conditions, then spec ops is probably not for you.
What about Hueys? I realize they're not spec ops, but this seems to be the best place to ask. It's hard to find any info anywhere on them.
They're at all the missle bases, correct? Are they anywhere else? Do they ever deploy? How difficult is it to transfer from Hueys to HH-60s? Thanks.
My ideal choices are down to
(1) flying Spec Ops (AC-130 or CV-22) or..
(2) going weather and hopefully going down the SOWT pipeline.
They both have pros and cons to them and I can't really decide between the two. Did anybody on here have a similar problem when they were choosing AFSC's? My instinct is to put pilot down first because it's much easier to switch out of than to switch into. Any help?
I've got a few questions/topics, any answers or info would be greatly appreciated.
1) Does anyone have any opinions on the CV-22?
2) Is there a significant difference between the spec ops missions flown by the CV-22, C-130, and the HH-60?
3) How hard is the spec ops mission on family life?
Schmee,
I have a couple of friends flying hueys and you are correct that they are at the missle bases. However, there are a couple in other locations. They have a couple at Eglin AFB to do test missions, and we actually have one in my current squadron (6 SOS) at Hurlburt Field. The helo pilots in the 6 SOS fly on both the huey and the 2 MI-17s(Russian helo).
I don't think that the hueys really deploy that much since I have never seen them in the desert, but that does not mean they don't.
The guys in my current sqdn that fly helos have actually flown a variety of them over their careers so I know it is possible to potentially change helos in the AF. However, from what I have seen, I think it is probably easier to go from HH-60s to hueys than the other way around.
Chad,
I had a similar problem when it came to picking my AFSC. While at the academy I studied Russian and close to graduation there were a couple of potential jobs at the Ukrainian embassy. I could not decide if I still wanted to fly or try and get a job as a foreign area advisor. In the end I took my pilot slot since that was the reason I went to the Academy, and see if I could tie flying and my Russian skills together down the road. It has actually worked out for me, since I was selected to go translate in Uzbekistan right after Sept 11th as we set up the deployed base at K-2. I was able to use my language and pilot skills to help the commander.
Now, I am in a squadron that has Russian planes and you need language experience to get hired. I fly C-130s and the AN-26 (Russian Plane) so I have been lucky enough to be able to use my Russian and flying skills in my current job.
Steelprism,
1)The CV-22 is still a very new acft to the AF, and they are still setting up the training program. Since there are only a few CV-22s around, the people flying them are the initial cadre coming from mostly C-130 backgrounds and they are not sending people from pilot training to the CV-22. I think it will be at least a couple of years before you can pick one in pilot training. When I talked to the guys who flew the first one into Hurlburt they said that it is easier for C-130/fixed wing pilots to fly the CV-22 than for Helo guys to learn to fly the CV-22. They say it flys like a plane except takeoffs and landings. I have flown it in the Sim at Hurlburt and it was very easy to fly and the instruments are top of the line.
I know that many people still have concerns about the safety of the CV-22 and you have to make up your own mind. I asked the pilots on the CV-22 if they had concerns and they both said that they did not and they thought it was safe to fly. They did say that with any new acft you are going to come across problems that were not discovered earlier as the plane gets flown more in training. They both said they really enjoyed flying the CV-22.
2) Yes, all 3 acft are very different and have different missions. The CV-22 and the C-130 have a more similar mission, but they are still very different. The thing they have in common is spec ops, which means you will work with the other airframes to get an operation done. They are all small pieces of the spec ops puzzle that get put together to accomplish the mission. If you want to be close to the ground fight, then you want the helo, but if you want to still enjoy some safety of flying higher and into safer locations than the C-130 is the right choice.
3)I think the Spec ops mission is probably a little harder on family life since you can leave at a moments notice to fly a secret mission. However, with the current OEF/OIF operations, all C-130s, C-17s, and other transport squadrons are gone on deployments just as long. I have C-130 AMC friends who have at times been deployed more than I have been. So, yes Spec ops can be hard on the family, but right now all AF families are being seperated due to OEF/OIF. The good news is there are many organizations on base to help the family that is left behind.
cheree,
so you are in the 6th SOS?
Chad,
Yes, I am currently at the 6 SOS at Hurlburt, but I am also attached to my old gunship sqdn at the 4 SOS.
Chad - we also have a combat weather guy (another 98 grad) answering questions on the Weather page...since you're deciding between both of them...hope this helps.
I'm a spec ops helo pilot that just PCSd to USAFA and would love to be a contributor on this blog. How do I become a regular contributor and how do I start a new thread?
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